Although their focus is on fashion and art, the words and expressions they use in ``here and there'' are very personal, focusing on the trivial but irreplaceable aspects of everyday life. ``Here and There'', a personal magazine founded by editor Hiroko Hayashi in 2002, continues to influence people beyond the confines of an individual. The latest issue vol.13 “HYACINTH REVOLUTION issue” is now on sale, 3 years after the previous issue, and a here and there × She is joint fair “here and there × She is” will be held on the 4th floor of “BEAMS JAPAN” from August 2nd to 12th. Their World” will be held. A talk show was held as a related event during the period. Maki Takenaka, the editor of "She is," has been following Hayashi's books and magazines since she was a student, and we spoke to her about her approach to special features, her personal perspective, and her passion for editing.

Regarding transmitting a "personal perspective."

- Mr. Hayashi is involved in editing Shiseido's public relations magazine ``Hanatsubaki'', and since the 1990s he has been involved in the exhibitions ``Baby Generation'' (1996, Parco Gallery) and ``Expanding Fashion'' (2014, Art Tower Mito). Through my projects and my personal magazine ``here and there'', I will explore perspectives on everyday life that are not bound by genres such as fashion or art, multi-creativity, and how women express themselves even after marriage or motherhood. It is being sent. I would like to ask Mr. Hayashi about his perspective as an editor.What made you want to become an editor in the first place?

HAYASHI: I was born and raised in a rural area, and I didn't know why, but I saw a mother who seemed unhappy. She was born and raised in Tokyo, but when she got married, she was forced to live in the countryside, and she seemed to be at the mercy of a fate that she did not decide for herself. My mother subscribed to ``Kurashi no Techo'' and ``Kateigaho.'' I think that for women, magazines were something they could rely on, providing them with something that was not fulfilled in the current situation, such as aspiration and useful information. I was also reading the magazines that my mother kept, and I had a vague admiration for the world that magazines could bring to me. Afterwards, I began my university life in Tokyo, but I had a hard time adjusting to the fact that my friends around me had American-oriented values and were heading toward employment in the financial sector. That's when I remembered the word "magazine." However, I didn't think I could get into a major publishing company, so I went to a mass media seminar and heard that apparently magazines are made from marketing, so I realized that it was impossible for me. After that, due to good fortune, I joined Shiseido and joined the editorial department of Hanatsubaki.


 - When you think of ``Hanatsubaki'', first-class creators and writers participate, and it seems like it edits fashion and culture from a unique perspective, but that's where Mr. Hayashi's foundation as an editor lies. Did you learn?

HAYASHI: The editor-in-chief is from my mother's generation, and I was the only newcomer to the editorial department where the other staff members were all veterans. At that time, Hanatsubaki had an editorial policy that had been passed down over a long period of time, and in a sense it favored a very classic editing method, and I was forced to rewrite the manuscript about 30 times, and I was forced to work hard. I did. In terms of how to write a manuscript, I received training similar to how to write a newspaper manuscript, which requires thoroughly objective communication. Even when it comes to planning, it is difficult for people to accept my personal perspective. In today's world, even when people claim that something like this has a centripetal force, they laugh at it and say it's just my personal hobby. However, by being in an editorial department surrounded by people of different generations and tastes, I thought carefully about how to handle topics that were difficult to understand, and I think this has led to my own editing methods. Masu.

 - I heard that you founded “here and there” while you were in the editorial department. What led to the creation of the first issue?

HAYASHI: Benjamin from Nieves, a Swiss independent publisher, was running a magazine called ``Zoo Magazine,'' and ``Here and There'' started when he asked me to create a magazine as a guest editor. Up until that time, I had never thought of quitting Hanatsubaki, but around 2000, I started to wonder what the point was if I stayed. In the 1990s, he met Ellen Fleiss on a business trip to Paris, where he developed a friendship through an interview, and was inspired by her free editing style. Although she was a curator, she started the magazine ``Purple'' at a young age without any knowledge of editing. The magazine, which was highly trusted by artists in Paris and started from scratch through a network of friends from the same generation, began to enthusiastically attract fashion and photographers, and in the late 1990s, has grown into a very influential medium. Her free spirit made this possible, and even though I only knew traditional editing methods, I was drawn to that freedom. Influenced by this, I started publishing ``here and there'' as an independent publication six months after I left the company.

 - At the beginning, we didn't have a special feature theme and it was called ``2002 spring,'' but from 2004's ``NEW LIFE issue,'' we have set a special theme for each issue. How do you decide on the special theme for each issue?

HAYASHI: After publishing vol.03, I gave birth and my life changed. I won't be able to go abroad in the future, and I was wondering if I would be able to continue making magazines, when I received an email from Susan Cianciolo (*1) announcing that she would be releasing a collection called "New Life." For me, who was at a loss after giving birth, the word "New Life" can be understood not only as my life after giving birth, but also as the baby itself. I thought it was a ambiguous word. With that in mind, I said to the people around me, ``I'm thinking of creating a piece with the theme of New Life,'' and I realized that there are many different types of New Life, depending on how each person perceives it, and I realized that the words of the theme might be useful. thought. Around that time, Yurie Nagashima (*2) had started a project to take portraits of newborns, so I'm posting some of them, and Yuki Maeda of Cosmic Wonder started her career as an artist, New Life. Thank you for your comments and photos of your work.

 - “The Loneliness ISSUE” in vol.8 was also very impressive. I was really impressed by the article written by Ellen Fleiss at the beginning of the book about loneliness in the age of social media. In Mr. Hayashi's afterword, he mentioned that he would like to do a special feature on topics that are not usually talked about aloud, and when thinking about the special theme for "She is", I try to keep such topics in mind. .

HAYASHI: What inspired the special feature was exactly Ellen's text. I feel like people are getting closer to each other through the means of communication called the Internet, but that's just an illusion, and in reality, we can't avoid love for each other. If you rely on it, loneliness will result. The main idea of the text was that in order to overcome this, encounters with other people, art, and nature are necessary. Her words inspired us to create an issue with the theme of ``loneliness,'' and we asked someone who we thought was this person to write the text. Mike Mills (*3) wrote about the loneliness he feels with loved ones, and Leticia Bena (*4) wrote text and photos from her experience of staying in Scandinavia during the midnight sun to create her work. He sent me a picture.


 - In the second half of the somewhat heavy theme of ``solitude,'' there was a special feature on ``walking.'' Why did you decide to focus on "walking"?

HAYASHI: At that time, the only thing I could do while raising a child was go for a walk, so I wanted to do something about it. Also, I felt that the editing was a bit unsatisfactory, as the story ended with the introspective theme of ``solitude.'' We asked Katsumi Omori (*5) and Miranda July (*6) to submit essays, and we received essays with very interesting perspectives.
I think you could say that this project came about because I was editing it with the triangle in mind. When I think about the act of "editing," I sometimes feel that it's a bit weak to send information that is only about yourself and the subject. I think of editing and conveying something to people as being like ``delivering a map.'' If the person who receives it can draw their own map, then it has been established. For example, when I tell someone that ``a certain object is wonderful,'' it's weak to just say ``I went here'' or ``I saw this,'' just me and the object. I think it's important to make the relationship between the act of sending information more than a triangle by incorporating objective information and the opinions of different people.
When I was trying to create a world with the theme of ``loneliness,'' I expanded from solitude to the feeling of loneliness that Ellen and Mike Mills think, and when I thought about how far I could expand this theme, I came up with the idea of ``walking.'' The sub-theme keywords have appeared.

- I think ``the BLUE issue'' in vol.10 is also an issue that stands out for its triangular editing. I thought the latest issue, vol.13, ``HYACINTH REVOLUTION issue,'' was a very interesting perspective.

HAYASHI: For vol.13 Hyacinth Revolution issue, we gave hyacinth bulbs to 42 participants and asked them to write about their feelings in writing, photos, or drawings. I personally love gardening, but when I looked up gardening, I only found examples of successful gardening and stories about how to grow it. While growing plants, of course there are times when you fail and times when you succeed, so I wanted everyone to talk about the process. As I talked to several people, some wanted to start by buying bulbs, while others refused because they didn't bloom. PUGMENT and Yuichiro Tamura express things that didn't bloom well. Aiko Koike gave each of the three bulbs a name and photographed their growth process every day to create a zine. The output of each of the 42 people seemed to reflect their individuality, and there were a lot of unexpected discoveries, so it was fun.


 - When are you aiming for the next issue?

HAYASHI: I don't know yet (lol). I'm forcing myself to start each issue only when I'm filled with enough motivation to create one. When I placed emphasis on information and thought speed of dissemination was important, I sometimes published it once every six months. Lately, I have put less value on the speed of information, and the times and lifestyles have changed so that it is no longer possible to compete on the speed of transmission. Over the past 15 years, the way magazines are delivered has changed a lot, so recently we've started to put more emphasis on events that involve how to deliver what we've created. For more than 20 years, we have been producing publications such as books and magazines that are somewhat irregular from the perspective of the market. If you put your heart and soul into creating a book, it will always bring you wonderful encounters, and I believe that its power of attraction is incredible.
I still can't imagine what state I'll be in or what I'll be thinking after enjoying the encounters that the Hyacinth Revolution brings me for a while, but I've already had many wonderful encounters, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what the future holds.

(*1) Susan Cianciolo/Born in 1969. After serving as the production manager for "X-Girl," he began releasing his own collection in 1995. After that, he expanded his activities and became active in the world of fashion and art, based in New York.

(*2) Yurie Nagashima/Born in 1973. Debuted in 1993 with portraits of his family. Since then, she has continued to publish photographic works on the themes of "family" and "women," gaining the support of many women. In 2017, he held a solo exhibition, ``And a pinch of irony, and a little love.'' at the Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography.

(*3)Mike Mills/Born in 1966. Graphic designer, film director. Since the 1990s, he has worked on many commercials, music videos, and graphics for Sonic Youth, Beastie Boys, and others. He made his feature film debut in 2005 with Thumbsucker. Her directorial works include ``Life is Beginners'' (2010) and ``20th Century Woman'' (2016).

(*4) Leticia Bena / Born in 1971, artist living in Paris. He is active in a wide range of fields including video, sculpture, photography, and advertising. Served as art direction for "Purple Journal". From 2013 to 2016, he co-edited ``The Chronicles Purple'' with Ellen Fleiss.

(*5) Katsumi Omori/Born in 1963. photographer. He has exhibited many works in photo exhibitions and photo books both domestically and internationally, and is also known as a famous writer. In the past, he has contributed photo essays to ``here and there.''

(*6) Miranda July/Born in 1974. Artist, writer, actress, film director. Her most recent book is her first full-length novel, ``The First Bad Man'' (translated by Sachiko Kishimoto), in which a character named Nakako appears.